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#1 Older drivers
buckman Posts: 5 06/26/2001 2:42 PM	My wife and I have been helping to sponsor a tour car for the past 2-3 years. It seems to me that the majority of the accident problems occur when the older drivers in the series, take execption to the newer drivers having a good run, and take them out. Why can't the tour be a proving ground for newer drivers. If someone wants to stay and drive later on in life, the late models series would seems to be fine for them. I think that a driver should get 5-6 years on the tour and then have to move on.

#1 Older drivers

buckman

Posts: 5

06/26/2001 2:42 PM

My wife and I have been helping to sponsor a tour car for the past 2-3 years. It seems to me that the majority of the accident problems occur when the older drivers in the series, take execption to the newer drivers having a good run, and take them out. Why can't the tour be a proving ground for newer drivers. If someone wants to stay and drive later on in life, the late models series would seems to be fine for them. I think that a driver should get 5-6 years on the tour and then have to move on.

#2 RE: Older drivers
nostranger Posts: 12 06/26/2001 3:14 PM	Wow..that is an interesting conclusion.. My thoughts are the same "older drivers" you are talking about are more than likely treating all of the drivers that way, you just may not notice it, or the other older drivers know how to handle them, by experience. If a driver was only allowed 5-6 years on the tour, well, then you wouldn't have a show, zip, nada, zilch... As far as tour being a proving ground..well I look at the opposite again, the late model series all over the US are generally a proving ground to move up..to a class such as the Tour.. and again, you have to prove yourself, until the "experienced" drivers know your style and you earn their respect, well then you won't get any breaks.

#2 RE: Older drivers

nostranger

Posts: 12

06/26/2001 3:14 PM

Wow..that is an interesting conclusion.. My thoughts are the same "older drivers" you are talking about are more than likely treating all of the drivers that way, you just may not notice it, or the other older drivers know how to handle them, by experience.
If a driver was only allowed 5-6 years on the tour, well, then you wouldn't have a show, zip, nada, zilch...
As far as tour being a proving ground..well I look at the opposite again, the late model series all over the US are generally a proving ground to move up..to a class such as the Tour.. and again, you have to prove yourself, until the "experienced" drivers know your style and you earn their respect, well then you won't get any breaks.

#3 RE: Older drivers
roadrunner Posts: 553 06/26/2001 3:19 PM	What if a driver starts when he is 50, should he have to stay in late models. And speaking of proving grounds how many tour drivers have got drafted by the big boys. Without those older drivers, who by the way are still winning races ,most of the young racers would never learn how to race or be intimadated, or know what it took to win. It is a big deal to just finish ahead of some of those guys.

#3 RE: Older drivers

roadrunner

Posts: 553

06/26/2001 3:19 PM

What if a driver starts when he is 50, should he have to stay in late models. And speaking of proving grounds how many tour drivers have got drafted by the big boys. Without those older drivers, who by the way are still winning races ,most of the young racers would never learn how to race or be intimadated, or know what it took to win. It is a big deal to just finish ahead of some of those guys.

#4 RE: Older drivers
PR Posts: 31 06/26/2001 4:44 PM	JUST TAKE YOUR OWN WORDS AND REVERSE THEM, THEN YOU WILL HAVE IT ABOUT RIGHT. NORMALLY THE MAJORITY OF ACCIDENTS ARE CAUSED BY YOUNGER DRIVERS. FACE IT THEY HAVE LESS EXPERIENCE. THEY KNOW HOW TO PUT THEIR FOOT TO THE PEDAL, BUT THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO THINK LIKE THAT DRIVER IN THE OTHER CAR, TO PREDICT HIS MOVES. THAT COMES WITH EXPERIENCE.THE LATE MODELS IS A PROVING GROUND FOR NEWER DRIVERS NOT A RETIREMENT FACILITY FOR OLDER DRIVERS. HOW ABOUT THAT 5-6 YEARS ON THE TOUR THEN GO TO LATE MODELS? WOULD THE SAME OLD TRUE FOR THE WINSTON CUP? THEY COULD PROVE THEMSELVES FOR 5-6 YEARS AND THEN MOVE DOWN TO THE BUSCH SERIES? OR DO YOU QUIT HAVING TO PROVE YOURSELF IN THE WINSTON CUP?

#4 RE: Older drivers

Posts: 31

06/26/2001 4:44 PM

JUST TAKE YOUR OWN WORDS AND REVERSE THEM, THEN YOU WILL HAVE IT ABOUT RIGHT. NORMALLY THE MAJORITY OF ACCIDENTS ARE CAUSED BY YOUNGER DRIVERS. FACE IT THEY HAVE LESS EXPERIENCE. THEY KNOW HOW TO PUT THEIR FOOT TO THE PEDAL, BUT THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO THINK LIKE THAT DRIVER IN THE OTHER CAR, TO PREDICT HIS MOVES. THAT COMES WITH EXPERIENCE.THE LATE MODELS IS A PROVING GROUND FOR NEWER DRIVERS NOT A RETIREMENT FACILITY FOR OLDER DRIVERS.

HOW ABOUT THAT 5-6 YEARS ON THE TOUR THEN GO TO LATE MODELS? WOULD THE SAME OLD TRUE FOR THE WINSTON CUP? THEY COULD PROVE THEMSELVES FOR 5-6 YEARS AND THEN MOVE DOWN TO THE BUSCH SERIES? OR DO YOU QUIT HAVING TO PROVE YOURSELF IN THE WINSTON CUP?

#5 RE: Older drivers
HAUG Posts: 20 06/26/2001 7:08 PM	This the dumbest thing I have ever heard.So you are suggesting we have a 10 car field? Ron Eaton,Garret Evans,Pete Harding and so on made racing in the NW and now lets just kick them out the door. Pull your nose away from the gas and get some clean air its affecting your judgement. the HAUG

#5 RE: Older drivers

HAUG

Posts: 20

06/26/2001 7:08 PM

This the dumbest thing I have ever heard.So you are suggesting we have a 10 car field? Ron Eaton,Garret Evans,Pete Harding and so on made racing in the NW and now lets just kick them out the door. Pull your nose away from the gas and get some clean air its affecting your judgement. the HAUG

#6 RE: Older drivers
boardwatcher Posts: 159 06/26/2001 8:38 PM	"And speaking of proving grounds how many tour drivers have got drafted by the big boys. " How many? If I'm not mistaken not many from the Northwest. Hate to break it to ya but Biffle didn't get dicovered racing in the Northwest Tour - it was in a late model at Winter Heat. If you wanna get discovered head down south or better yet, back east.

#6 RE: Older drivers

boardwatcher

Posts: 159

06/26/2001 8:38 PM

"And speaking of proving grounds how many tour drivers have got drafted by the big boys. "

How many? If I'm not mistaken not many from the Northwest. Hate to break it to ya but Biffle didn't get dicovered racing in the Northwest Tour - it was in a late model at Winter Heat. If you wanna get discovered head down south or better yet, back east.

#7 RE: Older drivers
roadrunner Posts: 553 06/26/2001 9:26 PM	My piont exactly, also take lots of your own money or big sponsor unless your daddy races or owns a cup team.

#7 RE: Older drivers

roadrunner

Posts: 553

06/26/2001 9:26 PM

My piont exactly, also take lots of your own money or big sponsor unless your daddy races or owns a cup team.

#8 RE: Older drivers
justafan Posts: 225 06/26/2001 10:05 PM	Yeah,that's a great idea,lets get rid of all the old guys,who wants to watch experienced race car drivers anyway? You want a proving ground? Whats it prove if you can't handle the competition? Kevin Hamlin is a young driver and he seems to be hangin with the older guys alright.I would gladly pay my money to see guys like Evans,Eaton and Harding any time and I'm pretty sure they all learned some lessons from some veteran drivers themselves.We are blessed here in the NW that these guys are around and want to compete,and any young guys up here are fortunate to have that quality of competition to learn from.

#8 RE: Older drivers

justafan

Posts: 225

06/26/2001 10:05 PM

Yeah,that's a great idea,lets get rid of all the old guys,who wants to watch experienced race car drivers anyway? You want a proving ground? Whats it prove if you can't handle the competition? Kevin Hamlin is a young driver and he seems to be hangin with the older guys alright.I would gladly pay my money to see guys like Evans,Eaton and Harding any time and I'm pretty sure they all learned some lessons from some veteran drivers themselves.We are blessed here in the NW that these guys are around and want to compete,and any young guys up here are fortunate to have that quality of competition to learn from.

#9 RE: Older drivers
buckman Posts: 5 06/27/2001 10:27 AM	What I am tired of is guys like Harding, starting in the back of a race due to a provisional start, and running like a "bat out of hell" trying to get to the front, taking out anybody that is in front of him. Or how about Evans losing all of his oil at PIR and driving around the track like he can make it the rest of the race. It held up the race for close to 30 minutes. The people started pouring out of the gates when that happened. Talk about losing fans. Good experienced drivers huh.

#9 RE: Older drivers

buckman

Posts: 5

06/27/2001 10:27 AM

What I am tired of is guys like Harding, starting in the back of a race due to a provisional start, and running like a "bat out of hell" trying to get to the front, taking out anybody that is in front of him. Or how about Evans losing all of his oil at PIR and driving around the track like he can make it the rest of the race. It held up the race for close to 30 minutes. The people started pouring out of the gates when that happened. Talk about losing fans. Good experienced drivers huh.

#10 RE: Older drivers
buckman Posts: 5 06/27/2001 10:29 AM	What I am tired of is guys like Harding, starting in the back of a race due to a provisional start, and running like a "bat out of hell" trying to get to the front, taking out anybody that is in front of him. Or how about Evans losing all of his oil at PIR and driving around the track like he can make it the rest of the race. It held up the race for close to 30 minutes. The people started pouring out of the gates when that happened. Talk about losing fans. Good experienced drivers, huh?

#10 RE: Older drivers

buckman

Posts: 5

06/27/2001 10:29 AM

#11 RE: Older drivers
ratracer Posts: 113 06/27/2001 10:39 AM	Hum...last tine I checked it was Eaton that oiled the track down, not Evans. Do you really know who you are talking about?

#11 RE: Older drivers

ratracer

Posts: 113

06/27/2001 10:39 AM

Hum...last tine I checked it was Eaton that oiled the track down, not Evans. Do you really know who you are talking about?

#12 RE: Older drivers
buckman Posts: 5 06/27/2001 11:25 AM	My mistake, it was Eaton, not Evans. My appologies to Mr. Evans. I do know what I am talking about, but got confused with a name.

#12 RE: Older drivers

buckman

Posts: 5

06/27/2001 11:25 AM

My mistake, it was Eaton, not Evans. My appologies to Mr. Evans. I do know what I am talking about, but got confused with a name.

#13 RE: Older drivers
buckman Posts: 5 06/27/2001 11:30 AM	How about the same type of restriction on the Busch series, rather than the Winston Cup series. The Busch series should be a proving ground for the Winston Cup series. I see close to half of the drivers in the Cup races are racing in the Busch race a day earlier when they are in the same city. I believe that they should have to choose one race or the other in a given week, not both. Let some new blood in.

#13 RE: Older drivers

buckman

Posts: 5

06/27/2001 11:30 AM

How about the same type of restriction on the Busch series, rather than the Winston Cup series. The Busch series should be a proving ground for the Winston Cup series. I see close to half of the drivers in the Cup races are racing in the Busch race a day earlier when they are in the same city. I believe that they should have to choose one race or the other in a given week, not both. Let some new blood in.

#14 RE: Older drivers
ratracer Posts: 113 06/27/2001 12:28 PM	Who are the "young" drivers going to have to learn from is you get rid of all the old duffers? I know we learn something from at least one of them every race!

#14 RE: Older drivers

ratracer

Posts: 113

06/27/2001 12:28 PM

Who are the "young" drivers going to have to learn from is you get rid of all the old duffers? I know we learn something from at least one of them every race!

#15 RE: Older drivers
jmr Posts: 21 06/27/2001 1:25 PM	Harding earned those provisionals. If he works his way to the front while a younger driver falls to the back, the younger one better observe how he does it. If a car is leaking oil it is not because a driver is old. Any driver leaking fluid that does not come in on his own is governed by the sanctioning body. It is their responsibilty to allow him to run if it is safe or to call him in the pits if it is not.

#15 RE: Older drivers

jmr

Posts: 21

06/27/2001 1:25 PM

Harding earned those provisionals. If he works his way to the front while a younger driver falls to the back, the younger one better observe how he does it. If a car is leaking oil it is not because a driver is old. Any driver leaking fluid that does not come in on his own is governed by the sanctioning body. It is their responsibilty to allow him to run if it is safe or to call him in the pits if it is not.

#16 RE: Older drivers
jmr Posts: 21 06/27/2001 1:29 PM	How is that racing? If you know you beat the best you can say you race. If you are only good enough to compete if the better drivers yield to you, then you are the one that should be stepping down to a series you are capable of competing in.

#16 RE: Older drivers

jmr

Posts: 21

06/27/2001 1:29 PM

How is that racing? If you know you beat the best you can say you race. If you are only good enough to compete if the better drivers yield to you, then you are the one that should be stepping down to a series you are capable of competing in.

#17 RE: Older drivers
KBrown Posts: 805 06/27/2001 1:49 PM	>>If a car is leaking oil it is not because a driver is old.

#17 RE: Older drivers

KBrown

Posts: 805

06/27/2001 1:49 PM

>>If a car is leaking oil it is not because a driver is old.

#18 RE: Older drivers
jmr Posts: 21 06/27/2001 2:58 PM	my O my ;0)

#18 RE: Older drivers

jmr

Posts: 21

06/27/2001 2:58 PM

my O my ;0)

#19 RE: Older drivers
groo14 Posts: 53 06/27/2001 3:54 PM	It was Ron Eaton that drove the circut leaking oil, NOT Evans ! Both Eaton's cars oiled down the track.

#19 RE: Older drivers

groo14

Posts: 53

06/27/2001 3:54 PM

It was Ron Eaton that drove the circut leaking oil, NOT Evans !
Both Eaton's cars oiled down the track.

#20 RE: Older drivers
rich98 Posts: 42 06/27/2001 10:09 PM	I have talked with many drivers young and old. When your on your game you are tough as hell to beat, and when you aren't ..... well. I have also spoken to drivers who will not run the NW tour because it is to tough. That is a fact Jack. The NW tour is probably the toughest tour series in NASCAR. That's why we consistantly take the top spots at SW tour races.

#20 RE: Older drivers

rich98

Posts: 42

06/27/2001 10:09 PM

I have talked with many drivers young and old. When your on your game you are tough as hell to beat, and when you aren't ..... well. I have also spoken to drivers who will not run the NW tour because it is to tough. That is a fact Jack. The NW tour is probably the toughest tour series in NASCAR. That's why we consistantly take the top spots at SW tour races.

#21 RE: Older drivers
89guy Posts: 82 06/28/2001 1:01 PM	This makes me laugh. I was watching Mr. Eaton in his pits at Evergreen. The guy could be my grandfather with his no name brand pants and beat up old shoes. A open car hauler and a pit cart that is a small trailer . He was talking about a golf game in the morning with another grayed haired man . Later that day he dominates the race. What is your grandfather doing to keep busy? building bird houses Gardening? Talk about a guy that loves racing. What happened to respecting our elders.

#21 RE: Older drivers

89guy

Posts: 82

06/28/2001 1:01 PM

This makes me laugh. I was watching Mr. Eaton in his pits at Evergreen. The guy could be my grandfather with his no name brand pants and beat up old shoes. A open car hauler and a pit cart that is a small trailer . He was talking about a golf game in the morning with another grayed haired man . Later that day he dominates the race. What is your grandfather doing to keep busy? building bird houses Gardening? Talk about a guy that loves racing. What happened to respecting our elders.

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