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#226  
302_Ford

Posts: 694
rating

02/09/2012 7:40 PM

Attempting to get a fair rule book for all chassis involved is a good idea. The goal should be to help reserect some of the even older cars that are sitting now. There are quite a few, and if those types of cars had a legit shot at competing that would be good for the growth of the Super Stock class. Right now it is really hard to justify building a Superstock as the cost pretty much mirrors that of a Late Model.
 
#227  
b15racer

Posts: 35
rating

02/09/2012 8:53 PM

May be look at groups or series that are successfull,really thats whats working not taking old rules. You have to produce cars to come and play.
 
#228  
Coreyjr

Posts: 90
rating

02/10/2012 1:10 AM

DO YOU HAVE A COPY OF THE ORGINAL LEASE SIGNED FOR MVAR DO YOU HAVE A COPY OF THE ORIGINAL NON PROFIT ORGANZITION FORMS. DO YOU HAVE AN OLD MISSION VALLEY SPEEDWAY COAT WITH AN OLD MISSION VALLEY SPEEDWAY PATCH. I DOUBT IT. I THINK I PROBABLY HAVE ALOT MORE OF A CLUE OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED AND IS HAPPENING. WHAT IT IS YOUR FULL NAME. MY NAME IS COREY WHITE JR.
 
#229  
Coreyjr

Posts: 90
rating

02/10/2012 1:16 AM

OK IF YOU KNOW SO MUCH TELL ME WHO THE ORIGINAL FOUNDER OF MVAR IS. TELL ME IF YOU HAVE A COPY OF THE ORIGINAL LEASE AGREEMENT OR AN ORIGINAL COPY OF THE NON PROFIT FORMS. TELL ME IF YOU HAVE BEEN AROUND MVAR FOR SO LONG DO YOU HAVE A MVAR SILVER COAT WITH A MVS PATCH. IF YOU WANNA KNOW THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT MVAR ILL BE GLAD TO SHOW YOU ALL THE DOCUMENTS STATING WHO FOUNDED MVS. MY FAMILY HAS BEEN AROUND MVAR FOR MANY GENERATIONS.

#75 COREY WHITE JR.
 
#230  
Coreyjr

Posts: 90
rating

02/10/2012 1:38 AM

OK MVS WAS FOUNDED AS AN ORGANIZATION IN 1971 AFTER RACING AT THE PONY PALACE 1969TO 1971 THEN BECOMING MISSION VALLEY SPEEDWAY. OK SO LET ME TELL YOU A LITTLE HISTORY. MY AUNT RAN THE BEER CONCESSIONS. MY GRANDMA RAN THE CONCESSIONS IN THE 70'S MY DAD AND AUNT SOLD PROGRAMS IN THE 70'S MY OTHER AUNT AND UNCLE HELPED MY AUNT BRING THE BEER TO BE STORED OUT AT SHARBANOUGHS FARM TILL RACE DAY AND THEY HAD TO BRING BACK AND FORTH EVERY WEEKEND. SO I THINK I CAN SAY MY FAMILY HAS BEEN INVOLVED FOR A LONG TIME AND I AM PRETTY SURE I KNOW A HECK OF ALOT ABOUT MVS.
 
#231 Re:
mmmmm1

Posts: 127
rating

02/10/2012 6:03 AM

Quote posted by 302_Ford:Attempting to get a fair rule book for all chassis involved is a good idea. The goal should be to help reserect some of the even older cars that are sitting now. There are quite a few, and if those types of cars had a legit shot at competing that would be good for the growth of the Super Stock class. Right now it is really hard to justify building a Superstock as the cost pretty much mirrors that of a Late Model.

that is where the crate engine will really help the cost and bring these cars out
will save a few thousand dollars on the motors.. if they try and do it with junk parts they last about half a season then done.
gear ratios don't work just like weight per cubic inch . are you willing to take apart after the race your diffenential and take the trany out so the tech can count gears?
or take the head off and measure bore and stroke???
you need to look at the whole picture when you think about rules.
no racer wants to spend all night dissasembling there car and then have to pay the money to reassemble it.
crates are cheap , quick to tech and less time and cost for the driver and crew
 
#232  
302_Ford

Posts: 694
rating

02/10/2012 7:37 AM

You don't have to take anything apart to figure the rear gear ratio. Just jack the rear of the car, turn the tires count both the tire rotations and count the pinion rotations. You don't have to dissasemble anything. The Whistle the track already owns can tell you the CID so you don't need to pull a head. Check your facts... Not to mention some people want the crates pulled apart too. I'm not some chump, been around about 20 yrs. Started working at the track at 9 yrs old. Learned from one of the best and most respected racers in Montana, helped build a few cars and raced for 8 yrs. Maybe you need to consult some more people before you give tech advice... By the way the crate isn't saving me a penny. Its costing me more money...
 
#233  
Superlatemodel

Posts: 554
rating

02/10/2012 7:41 AM

I think that the crate motor class would be awesome except for one thing....It is another class. The Superstock class as we know it today will be gone and the crate motor class will evolve. When starting a new class the car count will be low and take a few years to build up. Once the class is going well we will be back to some of the same arguements, This guy has stock brakes and that guy has fab clip...the other guy over there has all lightweight parts and that dude has a 1,500.00 chassis compared to Jimmie Bob's $25,000.00 fab clip lefthander.

I think it needs to go on as it is with some modifications. The weight of your car really needs to be based on the type of chassis or suspension you have along with the engine combination you have. At MVS we had a rule of 8.75 pounds per cubic inch for a type 2 chassis. (aftermarket brakes,or spindles or suspension) or you might be 8.5 pounds per CID for a chassis with stock brakes. This made it fair and we had different types of cars winning all the time.

If you want to take it further you could add 25lbs for a rack or 50lbs for full fab clip etc....

and still give a weight break for a crate.


 
#234 Re:
raceingfan001

Posts: 48
rating

02/10/2012 9:43 AM

Quote posted by 302_Ford:You don't have to take anything apart to figure the rear gear ratio. Just jack the rear of the car, turn the tires count both the tire rotations and count the pinion rotations. You don't have to dissasemble anything. The Whistle the track already owns can tell you the CID so you don't need to pull a head. Check your facts... Not to mention some people want the crates pulled apart too. I'm not some chump, been around about 20 yrs. Started working at the track at 9 yrs old. Learned from one of the best and most respected racers in Montana, helped build a few cars and raced for 8 yrs. Maybe you need to consult some more people before you give tech advice... By the way the crate isn't saving me a penny. Its costing me more money...


logevity doesn't breed knowledge..idiot
the whistler tells compression ratio look it up you have to input the cid to get the compression ratio.
counting turns on a rear end is maybe close at the best what about the different type of open and locked rear ends you can get cann't count it then also if you are running the trany in any other gear than 1 to 1 you have to pull the trany to figure final gear...

there are only 2 ways that i have seen any track check cid a pump which is give or take 3 cubic inch which with rule of 8.75 lbs per cubic inch is a 52 lb variance . so the only accurate way is to pull the head and measure.
 
#235  
murray

Posts: 411
rating

02/10/2012 10:07 AM

SOunds like you guys want SLM chassis but with limits on carb, drivetrain, and shocks.

And also have rules to help stock stub and maybe even full frame cars.

Streetstocks cost $15,000+ to build anymore unless there is a plethora of used parts around (and that was 5 years ago). Probably closer to $20,000 for a NWOSS outlaw style.

And if a guy wants to run stock spindle/hub/brakes, he can.

This isnt 1990 anymore. Superstocks have changed.
 
#236  
302_Ford

Posts: 694
rating

02/10/2012 10:13 AM

At least I can spell "racing", raceingfan001. Does drop the "e" and add "ing" mean anything to you...
Thats all easy too... yep a pump will get you the CID also. Spool the rearends, this decreases costs of the cars and eliminates that issue.
Mandate a saginaw 3 speed ran in 3rd gear or an internal clutch 2 speed tranny that is run in 2nd gear like a burt or a brinn or falcon, also cuts costs and easy to find. I mentioned the Saginaw or factory transmission early. With both the whistle and the external gear calculation it will tell you if you need to be concerned and need to take further look, if you lie about your CID then the whistle will read way off. Not to mention most of these cars have quickchanges, so checking the rear gear would take about 12 min. Lbs/cube is close, but it scares the outa state cars away. Just 602's and 350ish cid motors now. I think we were about the last cars with the small motors at MRP, not sure who has them at MVS.
This "idiot" knows more about racing and can drive big or little circles around you buddy... That's a promise... fan...
Josh Robinson
 
#237  
302_Ford

Posts: 694
rating

02/10/2012 10:34 AM

I built a Limited sportman for about 8,000. The Hobby stocks we build are a little less than that. You can buy a turn key crate latemodel for 10,000 on up. Your numbers are a little inflated but, ok....
The class the superstocks evolved from mandated stock spindles rotors and brakes, to help with the guys like Kinkle, Hatlen and myself who built new limited's near the end of that rule package some provisions to help keep the cost down would be a great idea.
Look at SCR's sportsman rulebook I think it is pretty good. What do you think?
It's much better than MRP's Superstock book.
 
#238 Re:
b15racer

Posts: 35
rating

02/10/2012 10:51 AM

Quote posted by 1arace:Tracy and his group have never wanted any quality teams to be involved with their organization. That is why they will never make the rules the same as any other track. They don't want any competition from any body that will beet them.
The restrictor plate will not slow down the quality teams corner speed, and like wise will not improve the slower cars corner speed.
So you will have 2 or 3 fast cars and a handful of junk cars that will run at hobby stock times and probably break down before the race is over, that is if they even show up every race.
They made a set of rules tailor made for Alex Lessors car. I wonder how they will like that competition?

 
#239 Re:
raceingfan001

Posts: 48
rating

02/10/2012 11:43 AM

Quote posted by 302_Ford:At least I can spell "racing", raceingfan001. Does drop the "e" and add "ing" mean anything to you...
Thats all easy too... yep a pump will get you the CID also. Spool the rearends, this decreases costs of the cars and eliminates that issue.
Mandate a saginaw 3 speed ran in 3rd gear or an internal clutch 2 speed tranny that is run in 2nd gear like a burt or a brinn or falcon, also cuts costs and easy to find. I mentioned the Saginaw or factory transmission early. With both the whistle and the external gear calculation it will tell you if you need to be concerned and need to take further look, if you lie about your CID then the whistle will read way off. Not to mention most of these cars have quickchanges, so checking the rear gear would take about 12 min. Lbs/cube is close, but it scares the outa state cars away. Just 602's and 350ish cid motors now. I think we were about the last cars with the small motors at MRP, not sure who has them at MVS.
This "idiot" knows more about racing and can drive big or little circles around you buddy... That's a promise... fan...
Josh Robinson


you where the last small motors at mrp and no one else would run because you had a 400 lb weight break. too bad for you everyone has caught on to your rule manipulation
 
#240  
302_Ford

Posts: 694
rating

02/10/2012 11:58 AM

Check your facts again... 200 lbs buddy. We didn't write the old rules either, anyone could of built a small motor too. 350 cars were 3000, 327 and 602's were 2900, 302 were 2800. When the rules were originally written it was 400 lbs split between 350 and 302 cars. But that was in the early 2000's and I wasnt't racing then. I had a 300 lbs break for 1 year, but again anyone could of built the same combination. Rule manipulation... lol... i wish...
 
#241 Re:
murray

Posts: 411
rating

02/10/2012 12:03 PM

Quote posted by murray:
Simplified SCR rules would work. Leave out the fuel system, and rear end sections to get more cars and make tech easier. Also make a difference between coilovers and big springs.



I was talking about price on a IMCA streetstock. Not hobbystock. With new parts, not used. 383 (or even a 355 with 416s), richmond 2 speed, 7.25 clutch etc

Were you talking of that 92 car? Yeah he slow.
 
#242  
302_Ford

Posts: 694
rating

02/10/2012 1:00 PM

Ya that would be pretty close then. Our hobby's are basically Street Stock w/out weight jacks... But I guarantee you can do it for less than 15,000. IMCA has more open rules. I don't think thats good for our hobby guys though. Pretty low budgets in that class. Lots haven't even upgraded where they can.
Don't think anyone can call the 92 slow... at least I know his competitors don't.
 
#243 Re:
raceingfan001

Posts: 48
rating

02/10/2012 3:28 PM

Quote posted by 302_Ford:Check your facts again... 200 lbs buddy. We didn't write the old rules either, anyone could of built a small motor too. 350 cars were 3000, 327 and 602's were 2900, 302 were 2800. When the rules were originally written it was 400 lbs split between 350 and 302 cars. But that was in the early 2000's and I wasnt't racing then. I had a 300 lbs break for 1 year, but again anyone could of built the same combination. Rule manipulation... lol... i wish...
sorry your right instead of a weight break of 400 you had to have 4bbl, 200 lb break and everyone else ran a 2bbl
 
#244 quotes from raceingfan01 ha ha ha lmao
Superlatemodel

Posts: 554
rating

02/10/2012 4:05 PM

lmfao..."logevity doesn't breed knowledge..idiot" look at this post by "raceingfan01" and let me know what you think.

How about this...."counting turns on a rear end is maybe close at the best what about the different type of open and locked rear ends you can get cann't count it then also if you are running the trany in any other gear than 1 to 1 you have to pull the trany to figure final gear." ???

"there are only 2 ways that i have seen any track check cid a pump which is give or take 3 cubic inch which with rule of 8.75 lbs per cubic inch is a 52 lb variance ."

they can be heavy and it would not matter so really it is a 26.25 pounds of leeway.

Robinson's are one of the best racing families around...if not the best. You really show how smart you are by butting heads with Josh. raceingfan01, b15racer, montanasracefan all you guys are stupid and most likely the same person. oh and one more thing, you are a local and not from out of state. None of you have ever posted on stateline or SCR threads.
 
#245  
Coreyjr

Posts: 90
rating

02/10/2012 4:44 PM

Hey don if you look at b15racer he signed his name as trev then if you look at one of the last posts from montanaracefan he also signed his name as trev. I dont know if trev is abbreviation for his full name or if his name is trev but I cant think of a trev ever being around mvs.
 
#246  
Coreyjr

Posts: 90
rating

02/10/2012 4:48 PM

IM CURIOUS WHAT IS YOUR REAL NAME b15racer.
 
#247  
302_Ford

Posts: 694
rating

02/10/2012 5:22 PM

Wrong again "raceing"... I'm noticing a pattern here... When my brother, not me, ran the 4bbl carb he was heads up weight wise, both at mvs and at mrp.
Thanks Don, I appreciate the comment as I'm sure the rest of my family does. I noticed the Trev also...
 
#248  
bmont61

Posts: 51
rating

02/10/2012 5:31 PM

What a fun thread to follow, minus the three stooges named Trev.
 
#249  
murray

Posts: 411
rating

02/10/2012 5:32 PM

just for some pricing fun:

complete currie rearend with diff $3000
transmission, clutch, driveshaft $2100
motor (just bottomend parts) $3000
carb $500
racing body $3000

Total: $11,700

There are better deals out there, but lets assume no used quality parts around and the level of competition is high. A good setup will beat quality parts, but a good setup and good parts is hard to beat.


 
#250  
b15racer

Posts: 35
rating

02/10/2012 11:02 PM

coryjr. YOU LET TO MANY THINGS BOTTER YOU.YOU NEVER RACER IN ANY RACING EVENT THAT TAUGHT YOU TREAT OTHERS LIKE YOU WANT TO BE TREATED, IF YOU DID YOU WOULD TELL ALL THE FACTS. INSTEAD YOU MUST BE GOING TO TRY TO BE AN ENGINER,BUT YOU BRIDGE NEEDS MORE STRUCTURE. YOU LET YOUR ANGER GETS YOU NO WEAR.YOU HAVE NO MONEY OR YOU AND OTHERS WOULD BE UP AND RUNNING.HAD YOU KEPT SOME OF THE MONEY FROM LEAVING OVER MANY YEARS,YOU WOULD HAVE ENOUGH.lOOK AT JERRY LOSH HE NEVER RETURNED TO HELP MVS SINCE HE GOT ALL THE TIRE MONEY WHICH CHUCKY PAID,ALL THE BACK GATE AND CORRECT ME IF I MISS THIS ONE BUT THE GOT PAID TO SHOW UP I BELIVE HE HAS'NT WORKED FOR THE LAST MANY YEARS,LIVED ON THE MONEY HE MADE FROM YOU ALL'S LACK OF KNOWLEGE TO RUN A TRACK IT IS THE SAME EVER YEAR. .AN ALL YOUR CONTRACTUAL KNOWLEGE YOU FAILED TO MENTION MVS HAS NOT FILED THERE NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION WITH THE STATE IN HOW MANY YEARS.THAT WILL BE A BIG HURTLE SINCE YOU HAVE SO MUCH KNOWLEDGE? TELL EVERY ONE HOW LONG AND WHAT THE CONQINCES OF THIS.IS THIS HOW YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE TREATED? TREV.
 
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