Northwest Racing

How many feel that a 50lb weight break for perimiter chassis cars is a fair rule to have in place like Yakima does for the superlates and sportsman classes to help even the playing field for the cars that aren't the latest and greatest straightrails? please chime in - yes or no and why?

it needs to be more

make it worth a guy or guys to drag out there old cars

I think 50lbs is fair that the same as they get here in N Calif and seems to work well

100 is what they do in Calif

go on a diet ron...jog alittle

Don't want to lose left side weight!

Then why did you cut your hair off????

perimeter cars should add weight

The following weight breaks will be given to the following cars:
Perimeter Chassis subtract 50 lbs.
Stock Front Clip subtract 50 lbs.
SRL/NASCAR Elite Tour Legal 9:1 engine subtract 50 lbs.
Non Busch style 390 carburetor subtract 50 lbs. (refer to carburetor rules)
2 Barrel 4412 NASCAR Legal carburetor subtract 75lbs
Iron headed engines subtract 50 lbs.
Brodix Spec heads untouched subtract 50 lbsCars running the following crate engines will be allowed to weigh:
GM 88958604 (untouched) 2750lbs 58% left (rebuilt/resealed) 2800lbs 58% left
Ford M-6007-D347SR 2850lbs 58% left - Ford ASA425 2850lbs 58% left
Dodge P5007958 – 2800 58% left
ONLY ONE WEIGHT BREAK MAY BE USED AT A TIME. ONE CARB BREAK,
ONE CHASSIS BREAK, OR ONE MOTOR BREAK. NO COMBO’S MAY BE
USED!
Cars with the following must add weight:
Engines over 360 cubic inches add 50 lbs.
Exotic Cup style engines add 50 lbs. (ex: SB2, new Dodge, Toyota, and latest
Ford

This is how it breaks down in N Cailf

That's a good package - the yakima rules are a good set also - the problem I see with the way the inssa rules that SCR is using are written is unless you have the latest and greatest straight rail coilover chassis alot of people figure why bother coming ( I know of two regulars last year that are parking theirs this year), they have even done away with the the width rules for coilover cars. It's almost like they were written for a certain car. I posed the question on the tech side to people who actually know what they are doing about wether a perimeter chassis would be competetive in a class with rules like that and the overwhelming response was absolutely not as even if you can get your percentages you still have all of that weight hanging on the right side (these are guys who have tried it), the problem is that 90% of the cars on the market are perimeter chassis cars so if you want your class to continue thriving you have to give these cars a fighting chance to be competetive.

None of that makes any sense at all. Show me 1 single perimeter/stock-stub/604 car that could get down to 2650 without spending Warren Buffett's budget to get there. Now let's throw the "spec shock rule" we have on top of that and see if we can get it down to 2600! The reality is, if this is the rule, someone will spend the US treasury to get there. The rest will stop coming to the track because they know they can't compete with that sort of budget (this is where I'll get slammed).

Look, I wasn't going to post anything on this because I'll just get railed on to "shut up and go work on my car" but this is ridiculous. I have to ask, are these the rules that caused the huge car count drops at Irwindale?

Why can't we just get back to the compression engine cars weighing 3000 and the crates at 2800 or 2850 (what ever works at a given track, my guess is bigger tracks like SRP will need to be at 2800 while smaller ones like ERP could do 2850)? It's a TON cheaper to add some led to EVERYONE'S car than it is for the few who can afford to pay for it to build these super light weight cars. I still believe that if you went with these weights, it wouldn't matter so much if you had a perimeter car or a straight-rail. You still wouldn't benefit so much from the $20k we are spending (I know, exaggeration. but you get my point) on super light weight this and that. Sure, the straight-rail WILL be better on left side. I'm ok with that. I don't see it as that big of a deal "IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS". All these weight breaks are a joke because only the "chosen few" can make use of them due to budgets and the guys with the compression cars just get irritated with "Oh great, another damn weight penalty". Why can't we just simplify it? You do it by going back to these weights. The rest takes care of it self. I have to believe this is a better, simpler, way to go. And it doesn't penalize anyone all that much.

And for those of you who say "A super late model should be light!" Why? Who says? The fans don't care how much the car weighs.

lml29 - Looks like we were both posting at the same time. Also looks like we aren't that far off on our thoughts either.

I didn't look very close at the california package, just stopped at the chassis weights. You are right about the crate deal Tim - the way it was set up did just the opposite of what it was intended for - instead of helping the low buck guy with the older chassis it instead gave the high buck guys one more way to have an advantage.

Quote posted by TerribleTim68:None of that makes any sense at all. Show me 1 single perimeter/stock-stub/604 car that could get down to 2650 without spending Warren Buffett's budget to get there. Now let's throw the "spec shock rule" we have on top of that and see if we can get it down to 2600! The reality is, if this is the rule, someone will spend the US treasury to get there. The rest will stop coming to the track because they know they can't compete with that sort of budget (this is where I'll get slammed).

Look, I wasn't going to post anything on this because I'll just get railed on to "shut up and go work on my car" but this is ridiculous. I have to ask, are these the rules that caused the huge car count drops at Irwindale?

Why can't we just get back to the compression engine cars weighing 3000 and the crates at 2800 or 2850 (what ever works at a given track, my guess is bigger tracks like SRP will need to be at 2800 while smaller ones like ERP could do 2850)? It's a TON cheaper to add some led to EVERYONE'S car than it is for the few who can afford to pay for it to build these super light weight cars. I still believe that if you went with these weights, it wouldn't matter so much if you had a perimeter car or a straight-rail. You still wouldn't benefit so much from the $20k we are spending (I know, exaggeration. but you get my point) on super light weight this and that. Sure, the straight-rail WILL be better on left side. I'm ok with that. I don't see it as that big of a deal "IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS". All these weight breaks are a joke because only the "chosen few" can make use of them due to budgets and the guys with the compression cars just get irritated with "Oh great, another damn weight penalty". Why can't we just simplify it? You do it by going back to these weights. The rest takes care of it self. I have to believe this is a better, simpler, way to go. And it doesn't penalize anyone all that much.

And for those of you who say "A super late model should be light!" Why? Who says? The fans don't care how much the car weighs.
That sounds great to me Tim. Why not make it 3100/2900, that would include more cars yet. The more weight they add the better I like it. Just keep the 200# break alive. I would LOVE 2-300 more pounds of sprung weight. Makes my Kazillion dollar lightweight shit even MORE valuable to me. Racing in the Superlate model series ANYWHERE is spendy. Still comes down to hard ass work day in day out. I'm not being sarcastic at all Tim...Bring on the weight AND bring out the(your) cars.

Look I didn't say it will work for you up there all I said was this is what we do down here and it works for us.

Also you only get 1 break so a perm 604 car would have to be 2750

old car can be just as fast as new cars lite weight chassis bend easyer than older cars. I have a old chassis that is just as fast as newer ones. The speed comes from the set up and the nut behind the wheel.

Hmmm, I think an old car can be as fast as a new car as well! However in a longer the race, you and your old car are in trouble! As far as our new lightweight straight rails bending! Well I've never built a Racecar to crash! I build mine to win!

Our team just ran the Vegas Fall classic! Anybody who wants to complain about weight concessions for crate motors! Holy smokes a current SRL motor gets a weight brake! All I can say is WOW!

Vegas is a mess with their rules no doubt.Isn't BJ Tidricks car like a 93 or 94 lefthander and he wins.The car is just bunch of steel it's what you do with that hunk of steel that counts.As long as it not a heavy bent up piece of junk that flexes all over hells half acre.

The question isn't about old vs. new - It's about perimiter vs. straight rail - new or old and wether the perimeter should get a 50lb equalizer - there is a reason you don't see people going out and buying brand new perimeter cars to run in the northwest.

Quote posted by lml29:. . .there is a reason you don't see people going out and buying brand new perimeter cars to run in the northwest.
True, but I still think the reason is our stupid weight rules. Right now our weight rules are ridiculously low. So I'm going to stick with my idea of 2800/3000 pounds making it less of a factor. If I had to add a little bit of weight to my perimeter car, I'd probably be much happier with my left side percents. While at the same time, a perimeter guy would be adding more weight since his car weighs a bit less than mine. So in the end, he'll be happier with his left side percents than I will. But like I said, I'm ok with that.

Quote posted by TerribleTim68:... a perimeter guy ...
That was suppose to be "a straight rail guy". Sorry.