Transcript of NASCAR Press Conference on Substance Abuse Policy
An interview with:
JIM HUNTER and STEVE O'DONNELL
JIM HUNTER: Good morning, everyone. We just left a meeting of all of our Nationwide and our Sprint Cup drivers and owners. We announced an amended substance abuse policy. We wanted to come in here and follow up. Also the drivers and owners and crew chiefs are aware. So feel free to do whatever you want to do with them during the day.
But we've got Steve O'Donnell, who is our vice president of racing operations here. Steve has been the point guy on our amended substance abuse policy. So Steve is going to run you through what the amended policy is.
STEVE O'DONNELL: Thanks, Jim.
As Jim stated, we just let the teams know where we're headed for 2009. What we've done is we feel like we've taken a good policy and made it even better. The way it came about was we've had a number of discussions with the other professional sports leagues, a lot of different industry experts, a number of those are in the garage actually, and Dr. David Black and AEGIS Sciences Corporation. For those of you who don't know, we've had a relationship with Dr. Black really over the last 20 years. He founded AEGIS. And AEGIS right now is the largest independent sports and forensic testing laboratory in the United States. So we feel like we've always been with the right group and we're going to continue that relationship moving forward.
Some of the highlighted changes we went over with the teams this morning are as follows. Beginning with the 2009 season, we're going to institute a baseline test that will take place for the drivers in Daytona during pre-season testing. Every driver who attends the testing session will be required to submit to a substance abuse test. All those tests will be administered by an outside agency, which is AEGIS, who will be on-site throughout the testing session.
We're also going to institute a mandatory test from the owners to all of their licensed crew members. In order for our policy to be consistent, we're going to require that the owners have their test certified by a SAMHSA lab. What that is, is a government agency, stands for Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. That will be a consistent policy we'll have with the drivers and owners. And then NASCAR will also test our officials prior to the start of the season. So that's kind of the first aspect of the program.
Moving forward from there, we're going to institute random testing that will begin, again, starting in 2009. People that will be subjected to random tests are all NASCAR Cup, Nationwide and Truck Series drivers. All over-the-wall pit crew members and, again, NASCAR officials will all be part of that program.
The way the program will work is you can probably expect it to be at most if not all events. We'll have AEGIS on-site. We understand that the race schedules are pretty busy, so we'll work with the competitors and everyone in the industry to make sure we find as convenient a time as possible to administer the tests.
I think the last piece that I'd touch on is our penalties. I think no secret to anyone here in this room is that NASCAR has had one of the strictest penalties when it comes to substance abuse, and that's not going to change. It is true that a driver, or anyone tested for that matter, who tests positive just one time could receive a lifetime ban, but I think we're pretty on the record with three times is an automatic lifetime ban from the sport.
I think the bottom line with the policy is we get asked a lot of questions as to why we did this, why not. I think we have talked to a lot of industry experts. We think it's always incumbent upon all of us at NASCAR to think safety first. That's the safety of our competitors and the fans. That's why we've got this policy in place moving forward in 2009.
So with that, Jim, I'll turn it back over to you.
JIM HUNTER: We'll open it up for questions.
Q. Nuts and bolts question. Besides the Cup and Nationwide drivers, was anyone else in the meeting here? Was there a meeting, a similar meeting, held at Las Vegas in conjunction with the Craftsman Truck Series event?
STEVE O'DONNELL: There will be a meeting in actually half an hour in Las Vegas, truck teams, owners and drivers. Same thing will be presented as we've given to you here with the handout. It will be the same deal.
Q. As the testing program goes forward in 2009, how will we be notified of who is tested in a given weekend and what the results are after that just so we can understand what we have to expect?
STEVE O'DONNELL: Yeah, no different than our policy is today. We don't notify anybody as to who's tested or if there's a negative test. The only time you'll hear us talk about a test is when we have a positive result that's been verified. So that will be no different than our policy is today.
Q. If a person violates the requirements and it is verified, driver or anybody else, will those people be publicly identified?
STEVE O'DONNELL: They will. And let me just back up really quick. The way our policy works today and will continue is that when a sample is taken, there's an A and a B sample. Before we go public with the media, we will verify that not only the A but the B sample was positive. Once we're assured by our medical review officer this is indeed a positive test, we will make that public.
Q. Define "NASCAR official." I understand over-the-wall crew member. Does that mean people who work the race on weekends or everyone who works for NASCAR?
STEVE O'DONNELL: Prior to the season, all of our officials who are here for the weekend that will be part of the baseline test. So, yeah, you can assume I'll be first in line, behind Hunter (laughter).
Q. Something in my handout may be missing. I don't see a list of the substances that are banned. Can you tell us what exactly is banned and what it is you're looking for?
STEVE O'DONNELL: Actually, you're not missing anything at all. We think we have the broadest policy in all of sports. The reason we don't have a list is we believe that a list is restrictive. If you've seen with a lot of other leagues, the policy is constantly changing. We know that there's new drugs out there every day. By having a broad policy that doesn't list anything, we feel like we can test for any substance that may be abused, no different than our policy is today.
I want to be clear on that. We've never had a list. It states right now in our policy that cough medicine could be abused if you're taking that too much and it's going to affect the safety on the racetrack. That won't change. We'll test for anything. Our experts are very familiar with prescriptions people may be taking and legitimate medications, but we will not have a list.
Q. I would assume the drivers and the people being tested would want to know. Has there been any discussion about sort of what I would presume is an entitlement to know what they're being tested for? Nobody's raised that?
STEVE O'DONNELL: A couple things here. No different than today, prior to the start of the season, the drivers let us know from their physicians what medications they're taking, what allergies they have, and are also required during the season to let us know of any health changes they have. All that's communicated to our substance abuse expert. Again, we can't put a list together because anything could be abused. So we obviously have different parameters that will be involved as to what's abused.
But I think no different than anyone in America who takes a prescription drug, if you take it the way the doctor ordered, things are fine. If it's abused, that will obviously show up on a test.
Q. Steve, I understand about the substance abuse part of it. Does that mean there's certain drugs that may be steroid-type drugs that are okay to take as long as they're not being abused where maybe like in cycling or something like that there would be a zero tolerance?
STEVE O'DONNELL: I think that's fair. The way we'll rely on it is if it's medically prescribed and we don't think it affects the safety on the track, that is something we would look at. So I think we do test for steroids. That is new to our test. That will be for over-the-wall crew members as well. But we'll rely on Dr. Black and Aegis on that.
Q. Is the reason for the baseline testing at the start of the season so that incidents such as like the Hornaday incident where you will have something to look at other than just somebody filling out a form saying this is what I've been taking, you have some sort of baseline in order to look at any future tests that come in for that person?
STEVE O'DONNELL: Yeah, I think there's kind of two parts to that answer. What I think gets lost a little bit is even without this new policy right now, the drivers are required to let us know what they're taking. That's kind of the first part. Then the baseline test, really with any new or amended substance abuse policy, it's the right thing to do. It's basically taking a sampling of where you believe you're at today, taking a look at it, then implementing your random test. It's not something we have to do every year in terms of a baseline, but we'll start out, see where we're at, then through the random testing process see if we need to institute that part again in 2010.
Q. Could you explain a little bit about any mechanisms in place to help rehabilitate a driver or a crew member who may have been caught up in the substance abuse policy through no direct desire of their own? An example might be someone who had been injured in work and took pain pills to relieve the pain and found themselves addicted to those pain pills, then became further involved in other drugs due to that. Is there a mechanism in place to help them rehabilitate themselves?
STEVE O'DONNELL: I think part of that is still in the process. But I think Dr. Black is going to be available to all of our competitors. Part of what we've done today is gotten out all of his information, all of AEGIS' information, really to start out with kind of those up-front conversations of, Hey, how is this going to, what's involved. From there, we'll lay out how they could be in assistance in the case we did have someone who had a positive test.
But I think we've also laid out a pretty good program in the past with Dr. Black with reasonable efforts and kind of a pathway of how to come back into the sport in the event we do have an issue with any one of the athletes.
JIM HUNTER: To your point, we have also had instances where Dr. Black has laid out a path for a driver who has been suspended to return to NASCAR. We have had instances of that in the past, and we will continue to do that.
Q. Is there an acknowledgment that not all substance abuse is intentional and sometimes it becomes a matter of a course of treatment for somebody, that they can get caught up in that web? Is there an acknowledgment of that?
STEVE O'DONNELL: I don't think so because I think of the safety aspects of the sport, we would still have to take action. If we know someone has failed a test, obviously we're not thrilled with that, but from a safety aspect and the nature of our sport, we would have to take action. That's where it comes in to what Jim talked about, is laying out an appropriate plan to bring that person back into the sport as soon as possible.
Q. Three strikes and out is like a popular little thing. I don't know if baseball had two strikes and out, would everything be two strikes and out. Comparing to other sports, did you consider out before three? And then drivers, so many other people affected by it, and fans. When you say "random" in that case, does that include if you see erratic behavior, can you deal with that right away, or is it we'll do this guy today?
STEVE O'DONNELL: We reserve the right today, if any one of our officials sees a driver that we think has a problem, we can test them immediately. The reasonable suspicion clause stays in effect for our policy, has been in effect, and will remain so.
The random aspect of the program for '09 is one part, but we also have the reasonable suspicion that stays in place 24 hours a day when we're at the racetrack or wherever we may have cause to have suspicion.
On your other question, on the three strikes, again, I think stated up front, there could be a circumstance for one and you're out. We realize that the nature of this program is safety first, that's safety for the competitors and the fans and everyone involved in the sport. So we would never rule out the fact that someone could be thrown out after one time.
But I think we've been pretty clear and we have a pretty strong record of standing behind our penalties. But we also want to provide a pathway to come back into the sport in the event of what like Bob talked about and circumstances that would dictate that.
Any violation for us, different from other sports, immediate suspension from the sport. If you bring up baseball, you're suspended a couple games or not at all. I think we have a pretty strong record. Any violation, you're out, until our experts tell you that it's okay to come back in.
JIM HUNTER: We still have a zero tolerance for substance abuse.
Q. How many people will be tested each weekend? Do you have a number on that? If you don't have a list of banned substances you're testing for, some of these tests are specific for certain substances, what will you be doing to make sure you're covering everything each week? It can be get expensive.
STEVE O'DONNELL: It can get pretty expensive. Any substance abuse test that we'll do, it will be broad, sweeping and comprehensive. Normally the categories you can look at are any narcotic that can be abused, beta blockers and steroids. Those are kind of the three key areas that we'll look at. But beyond that, we've got the capability to test for any substance. So to your point, it will a pretty thorough test when you look at what we could have done versus what we're going to do.
It's based on a ratio. It's on AEGIS. We can expect upwards of probably anywhere from 12 to 14 individuals to be tested per series per weekend. We'll have separate pools for the drivers. Probably on average about two drivers per series will be tested each week. Again, that's all random. Someone could be tested once, someone can be tested way more than that. It will be all computer generated and run by AEGIS.
Q. What was the reaction of the competitors in general, concerns they might have, as you addressed them and in speaking with them around the garage?
STEVE O'DONNELL: I think for the most part, and no secret, you've read a lot of the comments prior coming to Dover, that we believe we've got a very clean sport and we also think that the competitors are very supportive of the new policy.
As with any new program, there will be questions about how it will work, what will you be testing for. What we did today was just lay out the basics of the program and let them know that we'll have people on-site to discuss where we're going with the program and then kind of lay out a full booklet for them to go over the policy moving forward. I think overall very positive.
Q. NASCAR always has said they have the best, most strict policy. Why now is it important for a sport to change and add this? Is it because of the media attention, because of other sports changing? What is the reason now to change to this type of policy?
STEVE O'DONNELL: I think it really goes to everything evolves and we're all about safety. And really to maintain the integrity and safety of the fans, we needed to do this to make our policy even stronger. We think it's the right thing to do. We talked to a number of the competitors in the garage who obviously were for this as well. We just think it's the right program at the right time for us to put into place.
Q. It may be a matter of semantics here, but Brian France said there would be an adjustment to the policy. The way I'm hearing this, this is a total brand-new policy, everything else ripped up, and you're going to come to the forefront. Is that a fair assessment?
STEVE O'DONNELL: No, I believe the handout says it's an amendment to the policy.
Q. A couple months ago Brian said it would be an adjustment coming.
STEVE O'DONNELL: This would be an adjustment. If you look at the language when we have it in January, the nuts and bolts of our policy remains. When you look at a lot of things we have in place on lists or no lists, what do we have the right to test for, all that's the same. Nothing's changed. Dr. Black hasn't changed. AEGIS hasn't changed. There's a lot of things we thought were very positive coming in, and these are just things, I guess the best way to say it, that are layered on top of the program that existed.
JIM HUNTER: We're adding random testing.
Q. There are lots of drugs that are illegal. If somebody is found with those drugs in their system, is that considered substance abuse?
STEVE O'DONNELL: Yeah, that is a hypothetical question. Found by who? Arrested?
Q. Found in your test.
STEVE O'DONNELL: Oh, absolutely. If someone has illegal drugs in their system, is that the question?
Q. Yes.
STEVE O'DONNELL: Yes.
Q. With the random policy, how many more tests do you expect to issue next year per week or overall next year compared to what you've done this year or in the past?
STEVE O'DONNELL: This will be a significant policy. It will be every week, just about every week where we'll have Aegis personnel on staff. You know, we'll alert the media when there is a positive test.
Suffice to say, there will be a significant number of tests administered every weekend.
Q. We're looking at for a year like a couple hundred more tests or something like that than what's been issued this year? Can you further define what "significant" is, please?
STEVE O'DONNELL: I think we're comfortable with "significant". The competitors are comfortable with "significant". So that's where we'll leave it.
Q. In the paperwork here it says team owners must verify all licensed crew members have been treated by a certified lab prior to the start of the season. A lot of company's teams will test anyway. If I've been hired by a company a couple years ago, does that meet the requirement or is that something you're going to have all these teams start testing these individuals in the next few months?
STEVE O'DONNELL: We will require in the next few months that the teams produce to us that their licensed crew members have passed a substance abuse test that's certified by SAMHSA. The reason for that is, again, to have that baseline for everyone that's participating in this program, that's drivers, officials and licensed crew members.
Q. You talked about the thorough testing. You mentioned narcotics, beta blockers and steroids. When there's a random test, is that essentially what I'm being tested for or is it more all-encompassing? Is it essentially two different tests that I could get, beta blockers, narcotics and steroids, or is there another test?
STEVE O'DONNELL: I think I said what are the key things that are tested for in a normal substance abuse test, a comprehensive test. Those are the three categories. Again, we will test and our policy will be broad ranging. Any substance that shows up that's been abused will show up in our tests.
Q. The advantage of having no list of banned substances is that you don't fence yourself in. A potential disadvantage, particularly with the teams who are in more indirect fashion, there's some potential for results to be used arbitrarily. For instance, if they were a college basketball team, there have to be safeguards to prevent, say, the guy who is averaging 30 points and 10 rebounds getting away with more than the guy who is a bum they want to get rid of his scholarship. What I'm saying is, without some list, specific list, it seems to me there's the potential for some people to be drummed out of the sport where others wouldn't be because everything is not in place.
STEVE O'DONNELL: I think you could say that if we were the ones administering the test, but we're not. This is done by an outside agency. They do this every day for NCAA tournament teams.
JIM HUNTER: And they don't know who they're testing.
Q. Certification of team testing, isn't that a little different, not quite as direct, because it's not going under Aegis?
STEVE O'DONNELL: Let me clear that up. The baseline tests will be through SAMHSA. But when the crew members are at the track, the over-the-wall crew members, it will all be done by AEGIS. Anything we do at the track will be administered by Aegis. Part of the reason I think that's a fair question is we want an outside agency to administer the test. We think that's the most fair thing to take any potential bias out of it.
Aegis will administer those tests, and Dr. Black and our medical review officer (indiscernible) is the one who ultimately makes the call on whether this is a true positive test or not.
Q. A question about the cost of the program. Can you tell us how much this testing program is likely to cost NASCAR? The aspect of this in which the car owners must conduct the internal team substance abuse testing, do the car owners pay for that testing?
STEVE O'DONNELL: They're really two things. I don't want to get into the overall costs. But NASCAR will be responsible for all of the tests, the pre-season baseline tests, for the competitors and officials, and then all of the random tests throughout the year. The car owners will be responsible for the cost of their licensed crew member tests prior to the start of the season.
Jim brought up a good point. The way that AEGIS will do the computer program is really by a number. So it will be random generation. They'll see a number that will come up. We'll associate that number with a particular driver. So the people who are involved in our testing do this every day and really aren't as familiar with who is who. It will just be a number to them of who's coming in to administer a test to.
Q. Playing devil's advocate, let's say a driver or a team member is injured in the course of the performance of their duties and they're given medication prescribed by a licensed physician which may run counter to your policy, but it's not for performance enhancement but to help them get better. Where do you draw the line if a legal doctor allows them to have that prescription?
STEVE O'DONNELL: No different than we had today. We've had drivers who have been injured who are taking prescription medications who have alerted us to what they've been taking. We've had those consultations with Dr. Black. In the instances where our outside expert on individual cases feels it's okay, we'll obviously let that go. That doesn't change with our policy today.
Q. (Indiscernible.)
STEVE O'DONNELL: We'd make the determination as we would with any substance. We've always reserved the right to allow someone not to compete.
Q. Is there any sort of appeals policy in place, any leeway? If a driver can't make the test right there, is it his responsibility to set up another time or if you miss it you fail?
STEVE O'DONNELL: A couple things on the random aspects of the testing. If you do not show up for the random tests, that will be viewed as a failed test. We'll obviously work with the competitors, knowing it's a busy schedule. But in an instance of a person not showing up for a test when they were selected, no different than today. When we tap someone on the shoulder, they refuse, that's a failure.
When you look at an appeals process, the same policy will be in place as it is today. When a sample is taken, there's an A and a B sample. If a true positive comes up on the sample, we immediately have Dr. Black who alerts our medical review officer. At that time she contacts the donor and says, Is there any reason that you're taking X, Y, Z, whatever showed up. At that time a discussion takes place. The donor has the ability at that time to request a sample of the B test to be taken. Then after all that data is collected, a decision is made by the medical review officer as to whether we think that person had a true positive test.
Q. Is there a number of random tests that can be given to an individual person per year or is it unlimited?
STEVE O'DONNELL: It's unlimited.
JIM HUNTER: Thank you, guys and gals.
STEVE O'DONNELL: Appreciate it.
